"They are evil because they are willing to sacrifice their lives and the lives of other innocents for the sake of those who initiate violence."

Hmmm... So what you are saying is that it is perfectly okay to sacrifice the innocents living in Afghanistan not affiliated with the Taliban, as long as none of the innocents in our country die. Both countries are in the same situation, which was my previous point: The Taliban, the most powerful force in Afghanistan, chose to attack us. Our military has been horribly killing and destroying thousands of civilians, helping the terrorists, etc. for years. In both countries this is not the fault of the "innocent" citizens who have nothing to do with it.

People are so quick to divide, become enemies. You have done so already in your mind with me, and many others, on the other side of the "dividing line" which you have created between people who agree with you and people who agree with me. This is a huge generalization.

You cannot help but get angry with this; you call me evil, obviously wrong. Instead of dividing ourselves into categories and seperating our ideas, unwilling to even look at the other side, this country (and the entire world) needs to get together and come up with something that we can all agree on as a solution.

"...use so much force that they have no fists to punch back with."

The more of them you kill the more hatred is spawned. What you are essentially saying is that we must kill anyone who is in any way affiliated by race, distant family, friendship, etc. to the Afghani citizens... Becuase obviously as soon as relatives and friends are being shot unnecessarily for actions they did not even commit, they will get pissed off. When we kill the Afghanis, "innocent" of these crimes or not, those emtionally attached will become the new terrorists. It's like a big hate chain letter that gets sent back and forth between the US and other countries each time coming back at us more hateful and strong.

Editor's note: The goal of the war is to defend ourselves, not to kill innocent people. But get it through your head: this is a war, which means people are going to die. All the bullshit you spout ignores the basic question: What should we do now? Your solution, to "get together and come up with something" is not a solution. This is why liberals are amazing. Even in the face of war, they still want to pretend that a group hug is going to solve their problems. And even worse, they have no problem letting other people who disagree and prefer not to die suffer the consequences. (JR)

10/18/01 03:26:47 EST

Ok, slow down JR. I am not looking for a fight here. I did not say YOU were evil, I simply stated that I think the general mentality in our country is an overly violent one. Yes, I slammed American values and pride, but do not tell me that I am evil. It is exactly that kind of outlook that made us turn around and bomb the crap out of Afghanistan(Of course, though, set on a much more giant scale).

One more thing I do not understand... Why do you say it is bad that I am a "rationalizing" person. Doesn't rationalization make quite a bit of sense? Now don't get mad, that was not an attack, it was simply a disagreement, and a question.

Oh, and one more thing... I don't know if my rant was badly written but I did not mean it in a literal sense when I stated I wanted to move to Afghanistan and help the Taliban. The entire point was that people need to sit back and stop shooting. It would not make sense for me to then say I wanted to shoot back at America. It was an overstatement.

I simply think the only way to end something like this is not to shoot back. Simply put. That is all.

If you get punched by someone, the only way to stop the fight is not to punch back. All it does is create anger. You may disagree with me all you want, just please don't punch me back, because I am not looking for a fight with you or anyone else. I did not intentionally punch you in the first place, anyways.

All we have given the terrorists is what they want: A good ol' fight, and every blow of ours only gives each consecutive one of theirs more and more justification in their own minds.

Editor's note: In the days since September 11, Americans have divided into two camps: one that believes self-defense is the priority, and one that prefers to find out what America did to deserve the murder of thousands of its citizens. You are in the latter camp. Pacifists equate self-defense with the initiation of force. They are evil because they are willing to sacrifice their lives and the lives of other innocents for the sake of those who initiate violence. You made this perfectly clear when you wrote "If you get punched by someone, the only way to stop the fight is not to punch back." This is obviously false. Against these terrorists, we can - and should - use so much force that they have no fists to punch back with. And if this kind of talk makes you nervous, please offer another goddamn alternative. (JR)

10/17/01 21:58:14 EST

Ayn Rand said that the initiation of force is always wrong. She was very clear on this. She said that retaliatory force should only be used against those who initiated it. She was very clear on this, too.

But Leonard Peikoff has no problem with innocent Afghanis being killed, and neither do you. It's their government's fault, you both believe.

No, it is the fault of a nation that believes the madness that it is immoral to assassinate leaders, but moral to carpet bomb a nation of millions in the hopes of killing the leader, too. This is like finding the boardinghouse of the person who mugged you, but rather then kill him singly, you torch the whole boardinghouse so that all the other tenants die too. Then you blame the landlady.

The truth is, we need to assassinate the leader, and as many of his aides as are responsible. When other evil people see that we always assassinate those who attack us, or oppress their people, then only those who are good will be willing to lead. And the people, rather then curse our names, will welcome us as the lovers of freedom and justice that we could be, but are not now.

Editor's note: Well, wait a second. Don't lump me in with "a nation" that is against the assassination of foreign leaders. I'm all for it, though bin Laden and his thugs aren't Afghanistan's leaders. And you are distorting the facts. These attacks on Afghanistan have been extremely targetted, and though some civilians will most likely die, their death is not our purpose. Our purpose is (currently) to dismantle the government and to destroy important military targets, so we can go in and get the terrorists without getting shot or bombed. We have every obligation to protect our military with all necessary force. If a hundred Afghani need to die to save one American, so be it. They attacked us!

10/17/01 11:43:03 EST

Jason,

A few notes about recent posts:

For all your pooh-poohing against "root causes" and such, surely an intelligent person such as yourself can see the need to understand why 9/11 happened so that we can guard against it in the future. Figuring out why Islamic extremists hate us isn't tantamount to sympathizing with them; it only arms us with the knowledge necessary to refute their evil propaganda. To quote Sun-Tzu: to defeat the enemy you must know the enemy.

Our foreign policy needs to change, but let's be clear about what kind of changes are needed: You're not going to win this war by steamrolling the Islamic world with McCulture. They've seen the Big Mac. They're aware of "The Sopranos," and they don't want any part of it. Coca-Cola isn't going to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony. And I'm afraid that for a certain segment of the Arab population, that will never change. They simply see us as a sinful, decadent society that supports terrible practices like gratuitous sex and sending our women to college. Even forging a Middle East peace agreement isn't going to change the hearts of those who've decided that America is the Great Satan. The extremists hate us simply for who we are, not what we've done. Those people, the killers, must be dealt with. But bombing them isn't going to do shit. The terrorists are just going to hide. I have the distinct feeling that the majority of this war will have to be fought covertly, perhaps with some ground troops, but mostly by busboys with silencers.

But there are some common-sense foreign policy changes that we can make, and the sooner the better. For one, let's not help the Northern Alliance, because in 10 years we'll probably be fighting them. To say that we have a bad habit of funding our future enemies is to put it mildly. We gave arms to bin Laden back in the 80's to help the mujahedin fight the Soviets. Now the Soviets are helping us build a coalition to hunt bin Laden. We sell Iraq arms to fight their war against Iran, and now Iran helps us while Iraq's our enemy. Shit, we gave the Taliban $43 million in aid this year back in May. Think we can stop payment on that check?

What this country needs to do is get serious about our greatest ideals. If we're truly going to be the champions of freedom, then let's start acting like it and stop supporting these crackerjack dictators, including Pakistan's Musharrif, who overthrew Pakistan's legitimately elected government two years ago. Free the people and let them elect their own leaders. Spread democracy and opportunity. You've got plenty of people here in the U.S. who think we're a decadent and sinful society, but the reason you don't see them barnstorming skyscrapers is because we know that a plurality of ideas and a healthy array of dissenting opinions is what makes this country so strong. The terrorists and all who support them will have to be wiped away, but with our best bet for a lasting peace is to devise a new Marshall Plan for the 21st century that will provide economic aid and true freedom to people around the world. Our only other option is to turn ourselves into Fortress America, and I'm positive that such a state wouldn't be a swell place to live.

Editor's note: Re. "root causes," I think I made it clear that people are using the phrase to avoid action or to avoid naming what our action should be. We have time to find root causes after the terrorists are dead. But aside from the negative slur in "McCulture," I generally agree with your second paragraph. It is going to be difficult to handle the Middle East after we destroy what we need to destroy. But we're going to have to somehow for our own safety, and it will probably involve extended martial law. I also tend to agree with your third paragraph. Funding the Northern Alliance seems ridiculous to me. Theoretically, though, we might just be using them for our own goals, and may dump them when we're done. And, imagine this, I also agree with your fourth paragraph, apart from the Marshall Plan stuff. Let the Middle-Easterners take the investment risk in their own fast-food restaurants. (JR)

10/17/01 05:15:32 EST

JR is right on with his comment baring the apparently left-wing jacob from public commentary. Jacob, being the proud and WILLING RECIPIENT of the foot-in-mouth award, kindly reminds us all of the United States' mistakes regarding appeasement, and neglects the inherent questions of "what now?" I think the most powerful piece was a quote by someone whose name slips me now, "maybe if it was you, making the decision between burning to death or jumping, you'd feel differently." Let me be the first to say, jacob, that if the "patriotic junk" was only successful in almost convincing you to move to Afghanistan, I hope that my "disgusting," "hateful," and "violent," tendencies will aid in your decision to become another WILLING RECIPIENT of more awards by considerate Americans, possibly in the form of health/food aid to Afghan citizens. Although terrorism seems to always have a cause, the cowards didn't claim this event, and well, the innocent citizens will die in the long search. Before you start packing your bags, just remember, you don't need shit. It's sort of like mardi gras over there...and you're missing it.

10/17/01 01:31:42 EST

As I sit at my high school, or in a restaurant, I hear people all around me. Americans. They talk of the September 11th attacks, which yes, are absolutely horrific and disgusting... but nowhere other than a few leftist writings(and therefore not read or accepted by most) have I heard anyone talk of all of the horrific things our country has been doing to downright piss everyone in the world off; Nowhere have I heard anyone talk of the mujahedeen freedom fighters, or the Nicaraguan massacres we funded not 20 years ago. Of course, this is not big news... It never has been, why should Americans give a shit? It does not kill our citizens, these acts didn't even kill our soldiers! We just payed for someone else to do it all so no one would point a finger. When bin Laden's "freedom fighters" lost, where were we? When thousands of civilians were killed in Nicaragua, we had already packed our bags.

Now more than ever do I view our populus as one of the most disgusting, hateful, and violent groups of people in the world. The patriotic junk being spewed everywhere almost makes me want to move to Afghanistan and help the Taliban. Not really.

I believe that if any type of hatred exists in the world there can never be peace. A militaristic world will therefore never even have a chance. If everyone would settle down a little and stop shooting at one another, we would no longer have violence(obviously). Now, of course, this is not a viable solution... But it has to start somewhere. Maybe if we stopped spending 800 billion dollars a year on the military we could spend that money helping the other countries that are in chaos right now. No, it will not help if we send "Peacekeeping" forces with guns. We need to find out why everyone hates us, and fix the problem.

Of course, now there will be all kinds of people telling me that we need protection against the attacks to come on our land (which will definitely come now that we are "striking back"). As the most "powerful" nation on earth, we need to send a clear message to the rest of the world: We will not condone or tolerate violence of any kind towards ANYONE. Not the Americans, the Afghanis, the Japanese, the Africans... NO ONE. Terrorists cannot be stopped by creating more hatred around the world. This should be screamingly apparent. Sadly, though, I think our idiotic, patriotic, religious, DUMBASS nation is going to be the reason for the eventual downfall of the entire world.

Instead of pumping out people who tout the pledge of allegiance, we should do our best to create Americans who can be a functioning, peaceful part of a nonviolent world.

But hey, what the hell do I know?

Editor's note: You are right about one thing. Hatred did cause this war. The kind of hatred inherent in your statement: "The patriotic junk being spewed everywhere almost makes me want to move to Afghanistan and help the Taliban." And the kind of hatred implied by everything you wrote: that America is somehow responsible for the attacks. Let me clue you in on something. Innocent people were killed. They were killed by terrorists. There is no possible excuse for this. You are a lying, rationalizing, evil person, who deserves none of the protection our military provides for you. (JR)

10/16/01 18:37:21 EST

Please look at www.powforum.org/wtc and wait. It takes a few minutes to load but this is why!!

My city only has buildings 40-50 stories high. If I think of the same thing happening in my city, I cry. My back yard goes half way around the world. Any further and it is in my front yard.

warren stewart   perth

Editor's note: First, a warning that the movie contains three or four photos of people falling out of the World Trade Center. As tragic as the entire event is, those scenes are especially horrible to me. But overall, it is worth watching, if only to sit, cry, and remember. (JR)

10/15/01 02:12:49 EST

I generally find myself agreeing with you a lot of the time, but some of the things you've said lately have bothered me.

On October 13th, you posted a blatantly racist joke. The purpose of this war is not to get rid of all Arabs, all Afghans, all Muslims, or even all ultrareligious assholes (or we'd have to kill a lot of Americans too). The purpose of this war is to eliminate terrorists who blow up our buildings and kill our people, and the governments that support them. Making this look like a race war is counterproductive; it obscures the real goal of the war.

Regarding your October 14th comments about not feeding future terrorists: Those kids didn't crash planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and the fact that a kid grows up in Afghanistan doesn't mean that the kid will be a terrorist. You might as well say that compassion for American children in unfortunate circumstances (if their parents were killed in a terrorist attack, for instance) is just funding the next generation of Democrats. Anyway, last I heard, our goal wasn't to have as many children in Afghanistan as possible die, on the chance that some of them might become terrorists. So I don't see how it's wrong to have compassion for the unfortunate bystanders who get hurt by our morally justified acts of self-defense.

Editor's note: Well, I don't think the essence of that joke was racist, because the fact is that our enemies in that part of the world happen to be of one race. I can see why it seems racist to you, though, so I've removed it. But I don't agree with you that to eliminate terrorists, we just have to kill or capture a certain small minority of people. Most of the Middle-East is a place where terrorist attitudes are born and bred. If we want to be safe years from now, we need to affect serious change in the entire culture of the area. And no, I don't mean we have to nuke the entire area. (Only part of it.) We need to import Coke, McDonald's, Ayn Rand, and the Declaration of Independence. Regarding your comments about having compassion for the Afghani kids, I don't blame you. But as I wrote, we don't have unlimited resources. To ask kids to donate one dollar of their hard-earned birthday money to the children of our enemies is completely insane. How about this: once the children of all our friends are clothed and fed, we can work on the Afghani kids. (JR)

10/15/01 02:08:30 EST

In response to your response, I thought I would inform you that I am not the product of an American University; rather, I am the product of a Canadian University. Just a technicality, but hey, I have my pride.

Editor's note: We're not particularly proud of the 51st state. Which is why we leave the star off the flag. (JR)

10/14/01 19:47:18 EST

Dear Editor:

Erase this if you want Editor! I don't care too much, especially since you rule this messageboard with a more powerful fist than Stalin, or Hitler, or Mussolini.

I used to be right-winged. My entire ideology and outlook on life changed when I studied political science in university.

And now for some Rage Against The Machine.

The main attraction - distraction
got ya number than number than numb
Empty ya pockets son; they got you thinkin that
What ya need is what they sellin
Make you think that buyin is rebellin
From the theaters to malls on every shore
Tha thin line between entertainment and war
The frontline is everywhere, there be no shelter here
Speilberg the nightmare works so push it far
Amistad was a whip, the truth was feathered and tarred
Memory erased, burned and scarred
Trade in ya history for a VCR

Cinema, simulated life, ill drama
Fourth Reich culture - Americana
Chained to the dream they got ya searchin for
Tha thin line between entertainment and war

There be no shelter here
Tha frontline is everywhere

Hospitals not profit full
Yet market bulls got pockets full
To advertise some hip disguise
View tha world from American eyes
Tha poor adore keep fiendin for more
Tha thin line between entertainment and war
They fix the need, develop the taste
Buy their products or get laid to waste
Coca-Cola is back in the veins of Saigon
And Rambo too, he got a dope pair of Nikes on
And Godzilla pure muthafuckin filler
To keep ya eyes off the real killer

Cinema, simulated life, ill drama
Fourth Reich culture - Americana
Chained to the dream they got ya searchin for
Tha thin line between entertainment and war

American eyes, American eyes....
View the world from American eyes
Bury the past, rob us blind
And leave nothin behind

Just stare
Relive the nightmare.

Editor's note: I thought about gleefully censoring those Rage Against the Machine lyrics, but I changed my mind. This is a good opportunity for people to see the true, evil face of the Left. The Left (those who know what they're talking about, not the superficial "I just want to help people" liberals) have no answers, only hatred. Regardless of age, they're just sneering, bratty, life-hating punks at heart. That you read Chomsky is appropriate and consistent. (Somebody play the bugle. Another victim of the American university.) (JR)

10/14/01 12:58:25 EST

The Aussies are 100% with the US. I wish we were hitting these fundamentalist lunatics harder. I personally am very disappointed the US didn't nuke Kabul and Baghdad for starters. Forget the press and the talk shows, remember most press people are just ex Arts students without a clue. Australia has invoked our mutual defense treaty with the US and we are at war by your side - our SAS troops have been made available and we are ready to commit any troops you request.

10/14/01 07:51:05 EST

An Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. True. But maybe then we will get blind justice based on the FACTS.

1. We did not know they were coming.
2. They know we are coming.
3. I live in perth australia. 12 hours from New York. Do not go into my back yard as it is now New York.

Plan A is get em.

There is no Plan B.

Warren Stewart Perth

10/14/01 04:38:07 EST

Slip those Taliban-oppressed Afghani women some automatic weapons to conceal under their burqas. They know where to find bin Laden!

Editor's note: Sure, just as long as we find some women who don't support bin Laden. (JR)

10/12/01 22:05:19 EST

I find it appalling the the Palestinians are going to get a State out of all this (at least this is what the US is proposing). The Arab world is yet to identify Hamas, Jihad and Hizzbollah as terrorists..... they are the original terrorists! They are being called "Fredom Fighters"........ for KILLING THE SAME TYPES OF INNOCENT PEOPLE bin laden DID. Israel is gonna be a patsy in this and it is disturbing because there borders will be no safer. These bastards are gonna get what they want.

I truly hope every Jew in this world takes note of this the same way most Muslims blame the terrorism on the "underlying problem"...... The underlying problem is the motivation, the underlying problem is they are fucking nut, period.

10/12/01 15:42:21 EST

Kemi, do you go to the University of Pennsylvania? Just wondering, because you sound exactly like the unshaven, dreadlocked (but white) liberal hippie I saw today holding a sign saying, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." Now I suppose this is true - in fact it's what the U.S. has been doing for the past 50 years. i.e.: they bomb our embassies, we bomb a couple training camps. No need to "show how tough we are" by beating up on those poor countries too much, right? The attacks of September 11th have made it clear that it is *this* policy that does indeed threaten to leave the whole *civilized* world *dead*, never mind blind. So enough "eye for an eye" crap; enough with "multiculturalism," "tolerance," and whatever other nonesense self-righteous liberals like you love to spew. Unless you want to suffer the same fate as those in the former WTC, I suggest you stand behind the U.S. with the rest of the civilized world - your life depends on it.

On a less serious note - Jason, this site is schweet, thanks for all your hard work.

-James

Editor's note: I appreciate it. But to quote Bryan Adams, "Everything I do, I do it because of my desire to fuck my mother." Or something like that. (JR)

10/10/01 17:52:43 EST

This was murder and anyone that says different sucks, and anyone in America that feels nothing should be done about it ought to go live in the sand with the scum that did this. "Peace at any price", well anyone that feels that way is already a fucken dead piece of shit already, so they may as well stick their heads up their ass and suffocate themselves because they're useless. Every human in the world who is not outraged at this mass murder is a scumbag and I will say it to their face if need be.

10/10/01 00:07:39 EST

This site seems to confirm the very worst aspects of amerikana.

Do you have the wherewithall to consider (or post) the links below?

[URLs remvoved - Ed.]

Far from standing "shoulder to shoulder" many of us in the uk are watching with the utmost despair as the world's "richest" country (ably supported by our craven prime minister) shows how tough it is by bombing one of the world's poorest. So very brave!

Peace

Editor's note: You should take some lessons from your prime minister, who's showing himself to be a damn respectable guy right now. But I fulfilled your request; I looked at each website and considered posting them. Unfortunately for you, I don't link to three-year-old articles about why the United States "asked for" the attacks on Sept. 11. I'm sick of liberal idiots spewing about how we're to blame for the attacks, but when they're asked what we should actually do now, they have no answer. We don't need any goddamn "root causes", so take your "peace" and shove it up your ass, you pro-terrorist fuck. If you think we're bombing Afghanistan to show how "tough" we are - no, I take that back. There's no way you think that. You know damn well you're lying. To evade the deaths of 6,000 people in order to lambaste a nation which chooses to defend itself is not only disgusting, it broadcasts your immense stupidity to everyone within earshot. Or in this case, eyeshot. Don't you have a Shepherd's Pie you can stick your face in?

10/8/01 19:26:39 EST

God damn. I can't believe what those armaments lobbyist have done to us gun totin' morons. For years they warned us against commies. When they stopped being a threat we had to watch out for those black UN helicopters. Now it's the rag-heads. Do I have buy ground to air missiles now to keep my family safe. The best thing about gun control in this country is that 50% of all of us who own guns is that we're killed with our own weapons. E pluribus unem.

10/8/01 13:39:35 EST

Yeah, J., that didn't make much sense. Those people are in the minority (except on college campuses), and most people know at some implicit level that they're assholes. Unfortunately, they're also loud. Rand wrote, in The Lessons of Vietnam, about war bringing the American sense of life into the forefront, and how America tends to act by common sense when the chips are down... We're bombing the fuckers right now, so there you have it. Hurray for our sense of life, bringing those bastards a very vivid sense of death!

10/7/01 23:17:29 EST

Europeans saying you deserved it?

Hey, I wonder why, take a look at your post again and realise how moronic and pathetic you sound.

"The overwhelming consensus"

What a load of shit. A couple of opinion polls that I am taking off the top of my head.

Supporting America in any military action against terrorists.

Britain
For: 78%
Against: 12%
No opinion: 10%

Germany
For: 73%

France
For: 53%

So there you go, overwhelming consensus my ass. The reason some Europeans dislike America is because of people like you, morons who don't have a clue about the rest of the world.

If it weren't for the fact that most of your country has a degree of intelligence, and recognise the rest of the world, I'd be glad to see the rest of the world let you rot.

Britain has pledged to stand side by side by America, I hope you remember that before you come out with comments like "FUCK THEM ALL".

I just want to add that the intention of this post is not to insult America, but the single-cell specimen that posted, J. Us In Britain want nothing more than to punish the people who committed these acts, and we will stand side by side with America.

10/1/01 11:31:07 EST

On TV I see legions of sobbing Europeans and anguished Australians, all heartbroken over the recent tragedy.

Then I read their forums in their newspapers, watch their television talk-shows, listen to their radio, etc-transcripts whenever I can find them.

The overwhelming consensus is that America deserved these attacks. That maybe now the U.S. has lost its arrogance and sense of immortality, and that we'll shrink into the weakness of all the other two-bit nations of the world.

I am really fucking pissed off. FUCK THEM ALL.

9/28/01 09:11:21 EST

My goodness. You certainly have a strong opinion about this, and I almost completly agree. I still say that IN A WAY what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

I mean come on, take the situation in NY and Washington for instense. Yes, the twin towers and the Pentagon were destroyed, and MANY people were killed. It was a terrible event, and we are greiving over it. BUT it also made us madder, and it also made us stronger, and it gave us the couarage to stand up and fight the terrorists. Have you ever thought of it like that? if not, take some time to think about it. It is the exact same way with Pearl Harbor, it didn't kill all of us, it made us stronger by giving us the courage to fight AND beat the Japanese. so, i think that is my opinion, but yes, i agree completely with the author also, by the way, who is the author?

Editor's note: The author would be me. You're missing my point. My point was that you become stronger if you can learn from the tough situations. Re. the terrorist attacks, I definitely don't think they've made us stronger. Of course the United States has to do something in retaliation. The question is, are we strong enough to do everything necessary? Or will we, pardon my french, pussy out and simply stall our own murders for another few months or years? (JR)

9/25/01 18:40:14 EST

The recent and latest attack on the American Way of Life comes as no surprise to me. WE have been asking for it for a long time. WE have appeased the naked savages of the middle east and invited them to attack us for so long now that it is a wonder they haven't done worse already.

We should consider ourselves lucky that on 11 September 2001 the attackers didn't have nukes to throw at us.

I, a PROUD AMERICAN PATRIOT know exactly what we should do: we should first - stop pretending we don't know who these barbarians are and what they really want, i.e., OUR TOTAL DESTRUCTION, and then we should simply walk in with a gun in each hand - firing - and continue firing until their terrorist machine is null and void, and the governments who harbor and support them are dismantled and a proper one is put in their place.

I don't want to hear any nonsense about how we might hit the night watchman if we attack, leaving his family unsupported; he and his family are just as guilty as the supporting government and the terrorists themselves. The Feds shot Randy Weaver's wife and child, and incinerated men, women and children in the attack on the Branch Dividian Complex in Waco, Texas - why can't they shoot Iranians and Afghans too? At least we know the Afghans and Iranians are guilty of something.

Forget it - bargaining time is OVER. There is no bargaining or civilized conversation with savages and/or religious zealots and freaks. If they don't come out with their hands up - shoot them all. Period.

Will our government take this approach? Answer: no. Here is what will happen: The terrorists and their governments, with only few exceptions, e.g., bin Laden, himself, and possibly some of his friends (the governments in question will give these men up in order to save themselves), will be appeased and patronized and set free to terrorize us once again. There will be another attack (and/or more attacks), and these terrorists will continue to attack us until they hit us in such a way as we cannot recover. That is what they want. Then, possibly, if we are able, we will launch an all-out war against them (the kind we should have launched long ago, when we still had all our strength and resources), and even though we might win the final contest, too much of our way of life, manpower and resources will have been lost - we will have to start over.

The attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon are just a sample of what is to come if we don't get off our asses, get smart, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!

The End.

9/24/01 19:21:48 EST

What is it with everyone and God lately? I'm starting to get sick of hearing the word 'pray'. Every bloody right-wing shithead activist has been very fucking quick to point out how much people have been praying now, and since we're all doing it, how bout good ol' god gets some more say in the running of the country, eh? Fucking-a, I hate those assholes. They're like ambulance-chasers, following in the wake of every disaster, not really giving a shit about those who have died, or the true issues that develop, instead making sure that everyone remembers to pray.

Is everybody such a spineless fucking weakling that they need to get down on their knees and suck the cock of the creator of the universe in order to get on? Are we that worthless? Come on, people! Yes, this was horrible, yes, this was wrong, but that dickhead isn't going to help you! In most conditions, I'm nice to the average Christian, but in these times, I feel quite justified in insulting them by saying that the only Christian showing integrity is Jerry Falwell. Yes, he's an asshole, but so's the god they all seem to believe in, and if he were around, he'd probably be saying to himself, "Well, I wiped out Sodom for queers and I destroyed Jericho for kicks, I'll just let these guys fuck over America now."

FUCK ALL OF YOU!!!

Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

Editor's note: No need to apologize. You should just get yourself a website. That's what I did. (JR)

9/23/01 19:43:07 EST

From watching news reporters on T.V and reading articles in newspapers it seems like a very complex issue. I really don't get why it's made to be such a complex issue.

America MUST go to war, it's that simple. Sure, innocent citizens of the country that we attack are going to be killed or hurt. But would you rather they get killed, or would you rather have another attack on America and maybe someone that you know or even YOU be killed? You can't let your country be attacked and destroyed because of the citizens in the country that's attacking you.

"It's either destroy or be destroyed. Let's choose to live."

9/21/01 11:28:48 EST

Jason,

I have a better question: what kind of imbecile can't find the humanity in a well-written piece by someone who simply questions the appropriateness of laughter in this tragedy? What kind of hypocrite attacks an essay for being "trash" and then proceeds to crack wise about Smurfs and "charred human remains?" Apparently, mining tragedy for laughs is just fine, but examining the necessity and appropriateness for laughter in a thoughtful manner is not.

I thought you'd appreciate the essay because you've suspended the usual humor on your own site in response to the attacks, presumably for matters of good taste. How naive I was. Good taste has never ruled on this site. You've dispensed with humor in favor of pursuing your real passion: ham-fisted saber-rattling.

Just because someone writes from the heart and not from the toilet doesn't mean that their work is worthy of derision. Perhaps if Matt had said "shit-fuck" a few times you'd have liked it. Real writers, however, know how to make use of actual literary and stylistic techniques, including such wonders as proper syntax, subtlety, and a vocabulary that doesn't rely on dull, trite shock to prop up their work all the time.

We are all dealing with this horror in our own way. The piece wasn't supposed to be "cute." It was what it was, which is honest. I suggest pulling your head out of Ayn Rand's ass long enough to acknowledge that other people have real and valid responses that may be different that yours. That is our strength as Americans.

Editor's note:

You say the author "simply questions the appropriateness of laughter in this tragedy". Read it again. Here's another quote for the ages: "Now our questions mock our answers just as they outnumber them; our instinct for revenge clashes with that for calm; our rhetoric tries the terms of a former age on a new one entirely. The effect is suffocating; we gasp on our own contradictions."

This guy is worse than an ambulance-chasing lawyer. At least the lawyer wants to get something out of the disaster. The author of this junior-high, pseudo-poetic, let's turn our emotional reactions about a horrific event into a "Gee, I'm sorry your dog Sparky kicked the bucket" Hallmark Card piece if shit - that guy doesn't want anything. Just to belittle himself and the rest of mankind. "We gasp on our own contradictions." F him.

Oh, and if you can't tell my "smurf" comments were mocking him and not the disaster, then that's your problem. I recommend you don't watch The Producers, because obviously you'll pick up on how Mel Brooks makes a big joke out of the Holocaust. As for your Ayn Rand comment, it's infinitely more "tritely shocking" than than any "shit-fuck" I've ever used, or for that matter "fuck-shit", "shit-ass-fuck", or "fuck-fuck shit-shit fuck". As "Ayn Rand" has nothing to do with my response in the last post, your comment just reveals your true colors. I'm still content with my decision to end your short yet low-paying career as a Save the Humans writer.

Maybe what I wrote here will inspire your friend to write a little ditty about how inhaling nerve gas is like "drowning in the sands of time" or how plane hijackings make us "reconsider our grey, mortal souls and reach out to the brotherhood of man for one last big, squishy group-hug with the universe." What do you think? (JR)

9/20/01 01:01:59 EST

To Jason & all,

My friend Matt Herlihy has posted a very well-written essay on the humor site that he runs, www.sweetfancymoses.com - check it out, it's a wonderfully humane piece of work.

God Bless All,

Kevin

Editor's note: Kevin, I'm sorry, but that essay ("We Will Laugh Again") is complete trash. What kind of imbecile takes an event like an attack on the United States, and writes a cute little fucking Lake Wobegon piece of shit based on it? "Makes us crane our heads in sharp alarm"? "For whatever space we have to roam, as long as the hourglass pours, so will we be given these priceless sparks of humanity whose fire can't be quenched"? Jesus fucking Christ. Why doesn't he make and sell a "World Trade Center Fire-and-Rescue Smurf" or a "Franklin Mint Souvenir Metal Scraps and Charred Human Remains Collectable Coin"? Or, what the fuck, while he's at it, a plastic "Red Baron Vs. Snoopy Attack on the Pentagon" lunchbox or collector's plate? (JR)

9/19/01 12:48:18 EST

we in israel are with you all. the love will come back in big. i send you a huge hug. hold on to a great change, for the better, for the best. we are all under a shock. from the pain is coming a great compation, you all will recover,

america will recover

send my love

dalia.haifa,israel

9/17/01 23:56 EST

You beat me to it, with that picture. I was thinking that when they start discussing what to put there: memorial, replacement structures, etc. - the most appropriate thing would be THE TALLEST FUCKING BUILDING IN THE WORLD. And also the most modern and daring. And it should be something like the Global Capitalism Building or the Laissez Faire Center.

Somehow, it was a few days before the total significance hit me: New York City. Skyscrapers.

9/17/01 07:40:59 EST

Hey Brendan, try this on for size. If the hippies are just mouthing the chorus (as potheads often do), you'll be able to topple their immoral low-ground by exposing both their sloth in thinking and in singing Beatles tunes.
"Bomb the Fuckers"
------------------------
Everybody's talking 'bout carpet bombs,
bio-farms, damn Saddams, nuclear bombs
Isn't it the most?
Hippies whining, people dying, even Clinton's
crying in her toast
I am screaming: "Al-QuaIda, eat the peter!
Gonna beat ya and mistreat ya and then let your scrotum roast"

All we are saying is: Bomb the Fuckers
All we are saying is: Bomb the Fuckers
---------------------

If they are singing the verses as well as the chorus, it'll be easy enough to come up with others or to fling feces at them. Your call.

9/17/01 06:09:58 EST

On Friday night I went to Union Square Park for the candle-light memorial.

Lots of beatnicks around from NYU with beads in their hair singing "Give Peace a Chance".

How can I work "Bomb the fuckers" into that song?

-- brendan

Editor's note: Tell those goddamn deadheads that we gave peace a chance. Now we're gonna give explosives a shot. (JR)

9/16/01 22:31:56 EST

As a 21 year old in good health (and not in college), I have to admit to being apprehensive about a long, bloody war, since I'll be the first to be drafted. But I don't see any other way than sending in ground troops to hunt the cowards who did this.

There will be no easy solution. This will not be another video game war like the Persian Gulf where we can watch from the safety of our living rooms as smart bombs reduce our enemies to rubble. This will be a hard-scrabble siege against a fanatical enemy who understands nothing but violence.

I urge tolerance towards the Arab-Americans living here. They are as American as any of us, and we need not stoop to the level of the thoughtless barbarians who committed this atrocity on us by apeing their hate.

Jason, you're all for bombing the Afghanistans (maybe misspelled - sorry) back to the Stone Age, but I think that we could gain several million allies in that country if we went in with ground troops and liberated them first. The Taliban only gained power in 1997, and represents a small and fanatical minority of Islamic fundamentalists who have starved and terrorized the people of their own country for their own gain. The average Afghan hates the Taliban, and if not for the complete lack of hospitals, schools, infrastructure, food, and economy (not to mention weapons), they would overthrow the Taliban. It is the Taliban, not the Afghanistan people, who are hiding Osama bin Laden. Examine the geopolitics of the area, and see that there is much to be gained by raising up a beaten people rather than blasting their rubble to tinier bits of rubble.

If we can gain allies in the Islamic world, we might be able to avert World War 3 and save millions of American lives. Let's hold off on the bombs for just a moment while we consider alternatives that get the job done without sending American troops into the meat grinder. God bless the USA.

Editor's note: I advocate bombing terrorists and the states that support terrorists. That doesn't mean I want us to aim for Joe Afghani the pita salesman on 34th and Bumfuck, Afghanistan. But if Joe happens to be making his pita delivery to the Taliban at the time the bomb goes off, that's Joe's government's fault, not ours. We don't have time to "gain allies". How in Allah's name, at a time like this, can you advocate waiting any longer? To quote Leonard Peikoff: "If not now, when? How many more corpses are necessary before this country should take action?" (JR)

9/16/01 18:54:36 EST

In 1964, Ayn Rand wrote:

"America's inner contradictions was the altruist-collectivist ethics. Altruism is incompatible with freedom, with capitalism and with individual rights. One cannot combine the pursuit of happiness with the moral status of a sacrificial animal."

Yesterday I saw a most horrific, yet eloquent depiction of Evil vs. Good when the altruistic pilots attacked America at it's symbol of capitalism: the World Trade Center. These pilots willingly sacrificed their lives for what they perceived was the betterment of society. Long ago they had abandoned reason as their method of viewing reality; instead it is obvious they had relied on faith and had decided to live their lives in blind obedience to it. Selflessly disarming themselves of their ability to reason, they first obeyed the teachings of their religion, then they obeyed the instructions of their terrorist leaders, then they destroyed thousands of American lives.

History has repeated itself. Just as Hitler required non-rational, self-sacrificing individuals to carry out his work, just as Stalin required more of the same, today's terrorists require humans who are willing to throw away that which makes them human - their minds.

9/12/01 07:20 EST

Hey there!

Finally got to touch a computer again. Nice to see all's well.

Man, not too much has changed. More inane rantings about the evils of Microsoft. You know, it's kind of odd...that thing's been on your site for, what, a year now? And only now is this amazing attack happening.

Hmm, let's see...the three new articles are great, of course. Always interesting to note inane environmentalists. But then again, you might just be misinforming me, with all your 'specious reasoning and blatant factual inaccuracies'.

Anyway, before I ramble much longer, I wanted to ask a quick question - any chance we'll be seeing another DOG award?

And, one more thing: As melodramatic as it may sound, I've found my self in a strange new place (Hillsdale College MI, in fact - if anyone ever tells you that reason and religion can get along peacefully on a campus, they're lying). It's been a few weeks, but I still feel disoriented, isolated, and all that bad stuff. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for being here. You're the kind of guys that keep me going.

Rock on.

-Rick Signer

Editor's note: Rocking on in progress. (JR)